One of the hot forum discussions occurring right now on Rancho Murieta Online is whether or not Summerfest should continue at Stonehouse Park. Some of the alternative suggested locations are at the Equestrian Center or Lake Clementia.
The primary objection to the Stonehouse location is the condition of the fields after the carnival is gone. The heavy trucks, lack of watering, and intense foot traffic all take their toll. There are pros and cons to each of the three locations. The Summerfest committee is listening so let them know what you think.
Click here to discuss in the RMO forums
keep it at Stonehouse...better community feel...better community access.
The Equestrian Center may have some logistical limitations Stonehouse doesn't. If there's a big desire to change Summerfest's location I would suggest a two year transition plan.
Absolutely!! -- Summerfest tears up the soccer fields just as the season is starting.
the only cocnerns I've ever heard were that the fields got chewed up really bad, and that security of "outsiders" was feared.
the former is going to be an issue so long as the big machinery is trotted out there, but it seems that they've been more careful about that the past couple of years.
As to the latter, I've heard of more resident on resident problems than "outsiders" whenever that bogeyman issue gets brought up. Even with the Little Leauge Tournament doneybrook last summer, our community handled it quite well, and it is not reason to stop that (or similar) activities that benefit our community.
I assume if it were held at the Equestrian Center non-residents would be allowed to attend?
However, from what I have observed, and how Summerfest Carnival has been billed, the event is a "celebration" or "party" for the community, and not a money maker.
But, if the purpose of the event were to change (i.e., as a money maker), then I can see why it would be opened up to the general public (more wallets), and therefore moved to land "outside the gates"
That said...I hope that this event does not re-locate. I'd rather see it downsized, and kept inside the gates for all to enjoy.
I would keep it at the park. It has much more of a community event feel to it. Yes the fields are impacted but I have played in those fields literally days after the event and I think the field damage has been reduced over the years.
It is more convenient for the golf carts too. Yes, golf carts can get to the Equestrian Center but people/kids/families would have to cross Jackson Hwy and that is always a dangerous proposition, especially at 10:00 pm at night when people are returning home.
Pretty interesting.
Im not gonna argue for or against either one, but I want to make some comments.
Theres absolutely no doubt the wear and tear on the fields would be severely reduced if it moved. Also, the maint manager has already noted that once the field has been roto-tilled and the proper amount of soil amendments have been added, the entire field is very likely to be at least somewhat softer because of the soil structure. Right now the heavy equipment makes shallow tracks on rock hard soil, but it might be that the trucks sink several inches, and that would be nearly impossible to fix very well or very easily.
Ive already discussed it with the EC people, and they assure me they have hosted much larger events over there, and are very likely much better set up to handle the event than we are. But, theyre trying to sell a service, so until some actual numbers were put on paper, theres really no way to tell which is better suited.
A safety concern is that once visitors come through the gate, there is no control over where they go. Im not sure, but Im guessing that if theyre given a pass, it can be used at the south gate as well as the north.
I honestly dont know if theres a better community feel at Stonehouse because its never been anywhere else.
Better community access is also an unknown as far as Im concerned because I dont really know what that means. If it means people walking and golf carts, I can see where it might be true, but to tell the truth, driving a golf cart up Escuela and on the access road during SF can sure be quite an exciting ride.
I can see where Stonehouse is easier for cart access, but I dont see how its any less dangerous because of crossing the highway. The late night issue is definitely there when it comes to coming and going across the street, but I suspect the merchants would be tickled to death to have the additional foot and vehicular traffic.
But when ya think about it, is it really better access for the COMMUNITY at Stonehouse? Remember, the community includes the south and the Village, and if someone was going to drive a car from the south, the EC would certainly be easier access. If someone in the Village wanted to walk or drive a cart, for sure the EC is much better access,
Depending on how its done, it might not be too difficult to keep un-sponsored non-residents from entering by a simple ID check, but I honestly cant see why additional patrons would be turned away. And to tell the truth, my family and many acquaintances have attended community events in Elk Grove, Wilton, El Dorado Hills, Cameron Park, Placerville, Sutter Creek, Ione, Jackson etc., and were always welcomed with open arms. Why is it that there are people in RM who dont want to share out community with others to let them know what we have out here?
My guess is you haven't seen much damage to the fields in recent years because the damage has already been done. Take it from someone who refs on the large field, it is a danger zone when running on it. Whether that is from Summerfest or because it was not designed, installed properly, I don't know.
I did hear they were going to re-do the field. If so, hallelujah. My only concern would be Summerfest coming in and damaging the field if it is indeed re-done.
Other than that, I much prefer Stonehouse over the Equestrian Center. At Stonehouse, I feel relatively safe letting the kids (meaning Little Miss Luke and her friends) roam a little while having a beer and dancing the night away. I don't think I'd feel the same way if it was at the Equestrian Center.
Ya know, another option is the Van Vleck ranch, but I havent been over there in a while so I cant say what that would be like.
Is there a way to do Summerfest at Clementia? The amphitheater is perfect for the musical acts.
Put temporary construction fencing around the lake. (My initial reaction is Darwinian when it comes to the lake and people falling in).
With a little maneuvering I think we can get the whole thing to fit there. Some of the rides can be put in the parking lot where it is level. Parking can be along the road to get in and on the dam.
Personally I'd much rather have it at Clementia.
I think Clementia is a cool idea. Since we already bring in generators and there are the good gazebo structures.
I don't think anyone has drowned at etc events...bunch of kids running around during concerts (or the surrounding area). No fencing.
Yes, more kids would be there, but common sense should prevail. And if you are short on common sense, you should stay in your bubble anyway.
Yes, more kids would be there, but common sense should prevail. And if you are short on common sense, you should stay in your bubble anyway.
I can see a couple other issues too, also minor, but needing consideration. The goose poop problem hasnt yet been solved as far as I know, and Id be much more worried about some little kid getting ill from that than I would about them drowning.
The parking would be impossible in the regular parking lot, and that would cause parking out on Camino Del Lago and on the dam road extension, not exactly primo parking. The alternative would be to use the area on the golf course side of the road, but thats not owned by RMA, however I dont know that it wouldnt be easy enough to get permission to use it as a parking area.
Another issue would be traffic on the Parkway. Whew! That would be a bunch of cars going up and down.
All in all, I sure wouldnt have a problem with it if what issues there were could be resolved, but I cant realistically see it happening.
I love RM parents and kids more every year. The negotiations about being old enough to have the run of Summerfest are a little RM rite of passage. More than one 11 yo has proudly shown me a cell phone and told me they are allowed to just check in with their parents this year. I love that!
I think it comes down to the focus of the event.
If it's to hold a huge carnival and the rides, I'm certain that there is a better spot than Stonehouse (grass damage, etc)
However, if it's main focus is to have a community day, with lots of fun (and low level hassle for all, such as concerns about kids roaming and being safe), then Stonehouse is clearly the best spot.
Clementia is doable. I went by there today and there is plenty of flat area next to the road on the way for parking: parking solved. Looking at the parking lot there is plenty of flat space and room for the rides we had last year plus some: rides solved. Generators solve electricity issue. There is a large enough area for beer tent at amphitheater. Plenty of room at the park itself for additional tents and activities if need be and people to stake out their own spot.
All the activities can easily be set away from the lake and strategic construction fencing can be placed in high risk areas. (Again, if you can't figure out a way not to fall in the water maybe you shouldn't leave your house). The midway area itself can be roped off.
My personal motivation is the soccer fields. They are going to be redone this spring and I am afraid Summerfest is going to do more damage than normal.
Who is on the Summerfest committee to explore this?
If it's to hold a huge carnival and the rides, I'm certain that there is a better spot than Stonehouse (grass damage, etc)
However, if it's main focus is to have a community day, with lots of fun (and low level hassle for all, such as concerns about kids roaming and being safe), then Stonehouse is clearly the best spot.
Summerfest - Rancho Murieta : About Us
And please dont misconstrue what Im saying as being anti-Rancho Murieta, anti-kids, or anti anything else. Im super glad those folks do what they do. But it isnt just our kids going to Cosumnes Elementary, playing in LL, Soccer, LaCross, or any other kids recreational athletic league. As I see it, the community theyre talking about includes, the immediately surrounding areas, as well as Wilton and the areas between us and them.
All the activities can easily be set away from the lake and strategic construction fencing can be placed in high risk areas. (Again, if you can't figure out a way not to fall in the water maybe you shouldn't leave your house). The midway area itself can be roped off.
My personal motivation is the soccer fields. They are going to be redone this spring and I am afraid Summerfest is going to do more damage than normal.
Who is on the Summerfest committee to explore this?
You have to keep in mind that the only thing RMA owns out there is the lake and some surrounding land. Definitely nothing on the opposite side of the road from the lake is ours, so there would have to be some negotiations about the parking. But if the owner of the land is willing to assume the liability of people parking on their land, its a far superior parking situation than there is at Stonehouse.
I have other concerns about Clemetia being used and would much prefer it to be held at the Equestrian center, but if most of the Clementia concerns could be worked out, as long as Security and Maintenance had no huge problems, Id much rather not use Stonehouse Park for it.
This is good people. So far this thread has been very cordial, I assume thought provoking, and I hope informative. To me thats what the forum is all about.
I hope that this does not devolve into a discussion of who should be allowed to come, and who should not.
many of us invite guests to come to this event (and others like it). I'm incredibly glad that we do. It's a fantastic way to show others in the area what a great place this is to live. Oh, and it's pretty darn neighborly, too.
Should we let "just anyone in?" No...but when we host fantastic events like this, or Sport Tourneys, or Charity Events...by all means, if we have reached out to folks, and they are coming to join those efforts, I'm very happy to have them here.
(and yes, that organization, their sponsor, or the resident who invites them has responsibility to ensure that they follow the rules, go where they say they are going etc...etc..etc...etc...etc...etc....etc....etc...)
I hope that this does not devolve into a discussion of who should be allowed to come, and who should not.
many of us invite guests to come to this event (and others like it). I'm incredibly glad that we do. It's a fantastic way to show others in the area what a great place this is to live. Oh, and it's pretty darn neighborly, too.
Should we let "just anyone in?" No...but when we host fantastic events like this, or Sport Tourneys, or Charity Events...by all means, if we have reached out to folks, and they are coming to join those efforts, I'm very happy to have them here.
(and yes, that organization, their sponsor, or the resident who invites them has responsibility to ensure that they follow the rules, go where they say they are going etc...etc..etc...etc...etc...etc....etc....etc...)
I dont want to argue, but to me, its not necessary that people come through the gate to see what a great place we live, or that were neighborly. Thats especially true when considering that Summerfest is the benefactor of all the areas families, not just those that live inside the gates. In fact, it might just be that they give money to the new Wilton Park project because its very likely many RM children will use those facilities too.
The issue of whos responsible for non residents is a very complex one, and I sure didnt want to get into it, but that is a subject on our horizon. For now let it rest with this. Summerfest sponsors no patrons of the festival, so those folks have to be sponsored by folks who have the right to invite guests.
How about making a poll?
I think a poll is a fine idea. My only issue is that, as my Hub pointed out, there are lots of dedicated people on a committee who work hard on Summerfest. Maybe ideas could go to them first.
If yall remember, not very long ago, there was a community survey done. The community was defined as district households. Was it the best survey that could have been done? Heck no, but it was dang sure a lot more informative and useful than any poll this forum could produce. Not because the folks here are lousy examples, but rather that a much larger sample would provide much more meaningful information.
Perhaps it would be possible to cajole CSD to become the community's standard bearer for community surveys such as this one. Im not positive, but I dont suspect it would cost a great deal to set up a web page that was intelligent enough to only allow RM residents to use it, wouldnt allow multiple votes by one resident on any individual issue, and would allow personal comments as well as yes/no/indifferent checkboxes.
Something about checkboxes thats difficult for people to understand, is that they dont give anyone the ability to voice their thoughts. While having a vote count is very telling, getting a sense of why those votes were cast can be much more informative.
Come to think of it, I can't remember ever being asked by either of those event driven organizations for my opinion about anything. I'll grant that so far the ETC events have been absolutely wonderful and that Summerfest has been at the very least a success, but I don't rightly know how they go about choosing what to present to the community, and I think it would be interesting to know. Perhaps there's some information conduit I don't know about.
on-line surveys are fun...not reflective of the community as a whole...self selecting studies rarely ever do.
(any of it is fine, just clarifying).
the best way to see if any of this is possible is to contact the Summerfest people.
JackT, have you done that? or is this just fun banter? or an effort to drum up support to move it? or
And if there's concern about what RMA and/or CSD approve as events and the like, they are the entities with whom to address those concerns.
I'm all for "process" but when it comes to large scale events such as Summerfest, LL tourneys, soccer tourneys, and others, I have no problem with them pitching the event to RMA and/or CSD, and getting special permission to use the private facilities.
the best way to see if any of this is possible is to contact the Summerfest people.
JackT, have you done that? or is this just fun banter? or an effort to drum up support to move it? or
And if there's concern about what RMA and/or CSD approve as events and the like, they are the entities with whom to address those concerns.
I'm all for "process" but when it comes to large scale events such as Summerfest, LL tourneys, soccer tourneys, and others, I have no problem with them pitching the event to RMA and/or CSD, and getting special permission to use the private facilities.
After I heard what Id heard, I contacted some of the influential folks around the community to see if it was even worth pursuing. It all keeps coming back to the same thing you pointed out. It all depends on what the focus of the event is. I suppose sooner or later Ill check out those people to see if I can get a feel, but for the time being, Im willing to resist the urge to go pounding on anyones desk. Thats not a very good way to get anything done around here.
Well, as far as I know, CSD doesnt approve/disprove anything. Their only stake as far as I can tell, would be from the perspective of safety. From the folks Ive talked to, safety doesnt seem to be much of an issue since theres gonna be tremendous safety issues no matter where an event with that many people attending is.
As for what RMA approves, Im afraid I cant comment at this time. Ive heard some things that cause me some concern about their process, but thats an entirely separate matter.
Im all for allowing them to make their pitch too. But, there are some things. like the LL tournament that have no other possible venue for a looooong way. I dont know much about Kommie Kickball, but I assume there are much more central locations in Elk Grove for a tournament, so I dont see that as very big concern.
Where else in the 3.500 acres of RM is there to have an event a large as Summerfest has become? Weve got Stonehouse park as the only place inside the gates that doesnt need cooperation from someone else.
Then weve got Clementia, and several places still owned by the engineers or another entity. Outside the gates but in the 3.500 acres, is the airport. I assume if Fred were still alive and well, hed make that available in a heartbeat if asked. The same for the old football practice field by the airport, and the Equestrian Center. In fact, there may have been an excellent chance of him not even charging. For those who knew Fred, Hed literally do anything for his community, and he never once figured that just because he didnt live behind the gates, he wasnt a member of the RM community.
The same with Stan Van Vleck. Im guessing that if asked, Stan would have allowed it on his ranch in a New York second. That leaves the Engineers. They have a huge parcel of land on the airport side of the road that would easily hold 3 Summerfests and all the parking too. I no longer have much of a feel for how they get along with the community, but they sure have provided us with millions of dollars of free services in the past, and I dont know why they wouldnt allow their land anywhere in the 3.500 acres to be used for a community purpose like were discussing.
As far as I know, thats pretty much it except of our neighbor on the other side of Stonehouse Rd.. Thats a pretty sizable chunk of land too, and could easily hold an event of that size. The problem is, Im guessing some schmuck would say it isnt part of Rancho Murieta, which it technically isnt because its not within the 3.500 acres.
As far as my position, I think Ive already said Id like to see it moved. Of course I dont like to see the park all torn up and literally unusable for at least 3 days. My perspective is that since its basically an event designed to provide the community with some much needed and/or appreciated funds and amenities, I think it would benefit most by a move to another venue, and my best alternative is the Equestrian Center.
Unless it were just cost prohibitive, Im aware of nothing that would preclude it moving for one year to at least test the waters. If nothing else, it would give our soon to be new field an entire year rather than a few months to get planted and settled in.
That's all interesting information Jack. Concern for the fields always comes up so it's definitely a valid conversation to have. Lots of good sporty people out here who want what's best for the community so it could be a good group solution seeking effort.
Lots and lots of planning to pull off a smooth transition though. Lots.
But my lord, what were you thinking?!
But my lord, what were you thinking?!
Hmmmmm, sounds like you are speaking for the Board AGAIN. We all know that one person cannot put anyone on a committee, it is approved by the BOD. That is, unless you know of some under the table deal where you were assured of anyone you wanted, on any committee you wanted... would be approved. (and I am not stating JackT was a negative choice, I don't agree with the bird) But I am curious, was that agreement made during the meeting at the club after the election.... with Dick, Candice, Randy, Jim and you?
Back to Summerfest at Clementia. Seems a worthy effort to explore.
As I said before my motivation is to keep the rehabbed soccer field as pristine as possible. It would be a shame to rehab the field and then have to contend with 6" tire marks two weeks before the first game of the season. Do you think baseball would have a problem with setting up the Ferris wheel in their infield?
Clementia is a viable option and in my opinion a much better venue. All sorts of activities already happen at Clementia and I see no reason why Summerfest could not operate there as well.
I really do like the idea of Clementia. I have no idea who owns what and what that means. Music and equipment load in has been done and done again but there could be access issues with BIG trucks. ETC would know some of the limitations.
I encourage anyone interested or concerned with Summerfest at Clementia to go up there. Trucks are not a problem ping; in fact better access than Stonehouse.
The amphitheater is perfect for the music acts, dancing and beer-tent. The parking lot is plenty big enough for the midway. The grass area is a great place for additional tents and exhibits (cars) plus a place to stake your claim. There are plenty of areas adjacent to Clementia for parking. You can encourage carts by providing close in parking for them.
As far as the lake is concerned the only thing set up close to that would be the music acts and we have successfully been able to do that for a number of years with ETC and Blues and Brews.
Finally what a great location for the ambiance!!
I WANT directors to discuss things prior to getting to actual meetings. Informally of course, as nothing can be officially decided...and of course, not with too many directors present so as to create a quorum. BUT, if they have discussions/understandings about issues prior to the meetings, then the meetings can actually provide more intelligent, thoughtful, and reasonable discussion.
But let's move on from the minority/majority on the board sensitivity...it's just a distraction and sour grapes. This BOD is aparently working together, even if they disagree about stuff. No need to start tossing barbs just because you can. It's not lending itself to productive discussions. Of course, assuming that's what we want.
so anyway...
I agree that maintaining the fields of play for seasons of the youth/adult/whatever leagues should be a strong consideration when approving events at our various locales.
the new condition of the grass should absolutely be a consideration this year...maybe a great time to have a trial run elsewhere...see how it goes, and then return for 2011 if things don't work well.
I agree that maintaining the fields of play for seasons of the youth/adult/whatever leagues should be a strong consideration when approving events at our various locales.
the new condition of the grass should absolutely be a consideration this year...maybe a great time to have a trial run elsewhere...see how it goes, and then return for 2011 if things don't work well.
My point is that she said I when the BOD actually approves people for being on any committee. "I" implies that she has the full authority to appoint anyone she chooses to the committee that she currently chairs. Consider how you beat up other directors for using a pronoun wrongly, and hold our new board to the same standards. You began this, now be consistent, and play fair, that is all that I am requesting. Let's see if anyone wants to follow the rules that they believe they have established for our community (and keep in mind the CCR's as you all so often state as our community Bible).
I WANT directors to discuss things prior to getting to actual meetings. Informally of course, as nothing can be officially decided...and of course, not with too many directors present so as to create a quorum. BUT, if they have discussions/understandings about issues prior to the meetings, then the meetings can actually provide more intelligent, thoughtful, and reasonable discussion.
But let's move on from the minority/majority on the board sensitivity...it's just a distraction and sour grapes. This BOD is aparently working together, even if they disagree about stuff. No need to start tossing barbs just because you can. It's not lending itself to productive discussions. Of course, assuming that's what we want.
Seems like you suffer from selective amnesia Moon, by the way, all of the advancements that are happening with the BOD this year, was put into motion by the BOD of 2009, that this site continues to chastise. Is it so hard to give credit to those directors who made sound decisions last year so that the current BOD has something more to work with than threats of law suits and money wasted? Think about that before you write about tossing barbs, you know vey well who those people were, and you are smart enough to understand who took the RMA BOD and looked toward the future, not stuck on the wheel of D-S act and not being compliant with our bylaws. Why aren't you giving credit where credit is due, and as for barbs being tossed by the current BOD... get a life.
My point is that she said I when the BOD actually approves people for being on any committee. "I" implies that she has the full authority to appoint anyone she chooses to the committee that she currently chairs. Consider how you beat up other directors for using a pronoun wrongly, and hold our new board to the same standards. You began this, now be consistent, and play fair, that is all that I am requesting. Let's see if anyone wants to follow the rules that they believe they have established for our community (and keep in mind the CCR's as you all so often state as our community Bible).
As the community has matured it is clear that Stonehouse has evolved into an athletic field venue with 3 ballfields supporting LL, softball, vintage ball and adult co-ed softball. The soccer fields, which overlap some of the ballfields, support youth soccer and lacrosse as well as adult soccer and a pick-up football game or two.
With all that activity the fields get a pretty hard work out and Rod and his crew have done a great job keeping them in good shape. The large soccer field is being redone in order to take care of some irrigation and drainage issues as well as amend the soil to make it a safer playing surface. As it stands now it is a very hard surface that sprouts rocks. It would be a shame if Summerfest destroys all the good work being put into that field this spring.
Clementia with it's amphitheater is much more conducive to Summerfest. Change is hard and I am sure at this point putting Summerfest together at Stonehouse though difficult has become routine since everyone knows what to do. If Summerfest is located at Clementia I think in the long run it will prove to be a better venue for Summerfest and Stonehouse Park.
Rather than fighting with each other how about we discuss the merits of moving Summerfest to Clementia.
In terms of moving Summerfest to the EC there are a lot of considerations. Paying to use the facility is one. Might not be a big deal but there it is. You couldn't ask for a prettier setting than Clementia that's for sure.
Is anyone besides me bothered by the flies at Stonehouse? Don't laugh, I am serious.
Any venue that reduces the fly population inside the tented activities would garner my support.
And NO, I am not speaking for the Board or as a Director, I am speaking as a member of the community.
EC is a distant third to Stonehouse and Clementia and for Zebra I think the flies will be even worse there.
In any case, I'm glad that for the most part we are remaining issues focused. It keeps the personal stuff out of it. I think some people thrive on the drama, which is fine for them. But, in the end, that doesn't serve the community that well.
so...how 'bout the Clementia effort? Has anyone even spoken to a Summerfest person?
I just emailed a letter to one of the board members and asked them to look at Murieta Online regarding the conversation.
Has someone talked to the Summerfest folks to see if they are even interested in making a location change work? Point being, if the Summerfest folks pitch the carnival to RMA for the same location, and then the RMA expresses concern (say in June or July), and maybe does not approve the event, then the carnival may not occur, or there will be some scrambling to try and slap it together. Hopefully that scenario can be avoided.
An earlier post suggested issues with owners of property surrounding Lake Clemntia and possible parking areas. I researched the APN maps and contacted the county. It turns out property surrounding Lake Clementia where parking can be had is all owned by RMCSD and as it turns out CSD is us, so I don't think parking will be a difficult issue to overcome.
I think the larger issue is going to be liability (or the perception thereof) due to the proximity to the water.
I stand by my "live in your bubble if you can't stay out of the water" mantra, but I also know that reality dictates that the prospects of problems could dissuade folks from going there. Hopefully adequate "dummy proof" stuff can be done so that it won't be an obstacle.
for the record (if anyone is keeping one for us screen names), I'd be less inclined to attend if it was at the EC
EC is off the table for me too.
Construction fencing and patrolling the area around the water will idiot proof it as much as I think is possible. Plenty of people are near the water at other Clementia events including Summer Rec so I'm thinking this is somewhat of a moot point unless we are going to start freaking out over every other event that is held there. Never mind there is no lifeguard on duty 24/7 and we have unfettered access to a number of lakes and a river no less 365 days a year.
Some comments from a Facebook.com thread about this subject.
Survival of the fittest.
Survival of the fittest.
Preserving the turf on the baseball and soccer fields at Stonehouse from damage seems a noble concern. If that is the prime reason for suggesting a change of venue for Summerfest, have alternatives to putting the heavy stuff on that turf been explored, while retaining overall Stonehouse as the Summerfest venue? Could the heavy stuff, i.e., Midway rides, be located directly across from the Park, such as in proposed skate park site, or across Escuela on the Veil undeveloped property (doubt Veil would object since Summerfest parking already overflows onto that land, and indemnification already is, or could be provided)? And retain tents/booths, lite pedestrian stuff, on the Park grounds/lawns available to all RMA owner users and guests? The grassy turf available to the patrons is really an attribute and draw as opposed to hot dusty areas to congregate. Do the field lites and other power requirements/infrastructure as a necessity for Summerfest come into play if not available at other proposed sites? If splitting/expanding the existing site to accommodate these criteria, couldn't parking also be relocated adjacent to this split site down Escuela and into more of the Veil undeveloped property, to avoid pedestrian traffic through parked vehicles while strolling between the "heavy" and "lite" sites? Obviously this is something for the Summerfest committee to first initiate/explore as a do-able, or reject as undo-able, since ease of Summerfest operations at Stonehouse is well established. Other mentioned sites should likewise be explored, since the damage and repair to Stonehouse turf athletic fields must be a consideration. Can we hear from a Summerfest spokesman in this thread?
I thought about the vacant land adjacent to Stonehouse too. Only "problem" with that would be all of those homes that would, literally, have the midway right in their backyard. While Vail (and I don't believe he holds title anymore...land was donated and, last I knew, belongs to Tsakopoulos's son-in-law's publication...but I digress...) may agree to use, I doubt all those folks that live along there will be enthusiastic to have the lights and noise disturbing their harmony.
Stonehouse is the ideal spot. Except for the grass/playing fields! (I don't think there is room for midway rides across the way, where the skate park is proposed)
I'd be surprised if the vacant lot across Escuela would work for the reasons mentioned.
I liked Summerfest when it didn't have the carnival rides just fine. I'm betting the soccer fields were much better back then, too.
Maybe it's Summerfest that has to make the call about what they want to do, and how big an event they want to put on.
If it has all the rides from years past, then it needs to be elsewhere. If we go back to a scaled back, community event (with local food places, chili cookoff and "homegrown" events), then Stonehouse is still ideal.
Just so that no one thinks this is a soccer (Kommie Kickball?) ;-) club effort to move Summerfest, let me say that each year Rod and his crew have gotten better and better at preparing for, and mitigating much of the damage to the fields.
They are usually back to 90% within a few weeks or less.
We also would not have the coming field lights without Summerfest.
Kevin is absolutely right. Soccer has been the recipient of much appreciated donations from Summerfest and the hard work of our RMA Maintenance folks led by Rod.
I only speak for myself wanting to look at the possibility of moving Summerfest to Clementia.
In my opinion, Summerfest has become the ideal alternative to packing the kids up and going to the State Fair. Less crowds, less exspensive, less worry, less idiots, more fun for the kids.
I say leave it where it is, keep it the same, and figure out how to minimize the damage when setting it up and tearing it down. There has to be alternatives to driving big trucks on the grass area to set up the rides. The idea of moving it to another location is a mistake in my opinion. Stonehouse park is the ideal location.
I'm glad to hear that the soccer folks see improvement in the way Summerfest and RMA/crew has prepared for and mitigated the problems for soccer play!
And yes, lost in all of this is that Summerfest is a great supporter of so many youth related projects here...so to all I've said before, KUDOS to Summerfest, their efforts, and the people that make all of that possible.
I think this year is a "special circumstance" being that the turf is being replaced...maybe that's why I'm more sensitive to it this time around. With that, it sounds like the Summerfest, Soccer, RMA, and carnival folks have been able to work together on this in the past, and with that much time/planning can be put in to ensure that a Stonehouse location (if necessary) creates as few problems as possible.
Indeed, if Summerfest is a carnival, it is WAY better than trucking down to Sacramento, and shelling out money we'll never see again!
I appreciate this conversation because it shows that people are really thinking about what works this year for our community. The soccer fields are getting a costly makeover. Summerfest raises money for youth activities and sports. It would be a shame if a hefty portion of the Summerfest income went to repairing the damage it caused on the newly refurbished fields.
To me, it doesn't matter much other than I appreciate the fact we are not on automatic.
I love Summerfest!
I think having the carnival folks come out to Clementia and give an opinion would settle whether Clementia is viable or not.
I don't care where it's held just keep it inside the gates as it's a community function that benifits the community.
If the main reason to relocate SF is turf damage. Why not redo the turf after summerfest & take advantage of cooler weather and hopefully some natural irrigation?
The turf is going to be redone in a few weeks. Now the grass grows on very little top soil and is very compacted. When trucks drive on it little damage is done since it is so compacted. As an athletic field it is less than desirable since the field has no give, is akin to playing on a clay surface and sprouts rocks.
New topsoil is going to imported in. I fear as the trucks drive on the rehabbed field ruts from the trucks and rides will damage the field. Regardless when the field is rehabbed this is going to happen.
I believe a good hard look at Clementia is warranted. The folks who know best, the carnival, can make a decision if the rides can be put at Clementia and if there are any other issues to be concerned with such as ADA laws. If it cannot be put at Clementia then the test will be when Summerfest is put at Stonehouse and what damage may occur there. Of course any damage on the field will have to be mitigated ASAP since practice needs to resume again for soccer and games start two weeks after Summerfest.
I talked to Mike Martel about this thread. He seemed to appreciate all the opinions. He did want to offer a bit of background on this subject.
He said the first Summerfest was held at the lake. The Summerfest committee was concerned with an accident around the water. They felt that if anything ever happened that the event would be looked upon negatively from then on. There are some challenges with parking and dust at the lake. There are also some ADA issues that Stonehouse does not have.
Mike said they are aware of issues with the fields. They have started taking photos before and after the carnival to see where the issues are and where they can improve. He said one of the things that has been hard on the fields in the past in the water slides. They add a lot of water to the ground and with all the traffic it is hard on the turf. There will be no water slides this year.
It sounds like there is really no other option and Summerfest will remain at Stonehouse. I think the committee is open to ideas on mitigating any issues. Mike will monitor this thread so if you have any ideas feel free to post them.
If anyone is cognizant of and appreciative of the field issue, it is Mike. Not that he is the only one, but his efforts over the years are certainly a key reason we even have the fields and amenities that we have at Stonehouse.
After this thread started, I spoke with a couple Summerfest people. They have thought about all the location options we have discussed here. I was on the ETC BOD and the lake presents some challenges for a variety of reasons including ADA. There is a great bunch of folks who run Summerfest and they think BIG which is why the events are outstanding.
And the Summerfest money goes back in to Rancho Murieta. Thank you SF!